© 2007 Institute of Current World Affairs
The Institute awards long-term fellowships to develop a deep understanding of an issue, country, or region outside the US and to share that understanding with a wider public.
Institute of Current World Affairs - Home Page

Below is a hobbled text version of a PDF document.
In order to read the actual document please click the link below and register if necessary.
(One-time registration is free and very quick.)
Read article

5/27/1979 - Interview with Erik Eckholm by William E. Knowland

NOT FOR PUBLICATION WITHOUT WRITER S CONSENT INSTITUTE OF CURRENT WORLD AFFAIRS WEK Belmont Road NW Washington D C 20009 Interview Erik Eckholm May Mr Peter B Martin Executive Director Institute Current World Affairs Wheelock House West Wheelock Street Hanover New Hampshire 03755 Dear Mr Martin The accelerating deforestation third world troubled handful foresters biologists agricultural experts years It Erik Eckholm Losing Ground however opened subject Since published Losing Ground credited catalyzing major changes forestry environmental policies World Bank other international development assistance agencies The seems struck chord grassroots level recent travelers northern India report villagers posted excerpts Losing Ground along roadsides there Several foreste consider Erik recent review world forestry situation Ford Foundation Planting Future Forestry H Needs overview global forestry issues programs available either layman professional I concur commend others interested forests It world forests Erik about writing career least interrupt Within weeks leave Worldwatch Institute which founder Lester R Brown Policy Planning Staff U S Department State Before becomes enmeshed international diplomacy seemed timely glean present conclusions about prospects forestry economic development My interview sufficient interest I decided share lengthy excerpt So I story behind before Ne ither Erik previously ventured broach public ultimate crisis arising human forest products William Knowland Institute Forest Man Fellow investigating forests economic development You previously authored By Bread Alone In Human Interest Lester Brown Those fairly comprehensive books about population problems How focus specifically environmental stress forestry issues Eckholm It originally Lester If earlier writings always interest erosion deforestiation He article Scientific American during about world systems which often reprinted It included discussion erosion about people about expanding cropland there cropped shouldn He lived India during college lived worked Indian village Then there discovered trees disappeared So became interested In By Bread Alone there short section pages about ecological undermining system There reports coming AID U S Agency International Development about Sahara desert spreading rates miles dutifully quoted those Then there record floods Asian subcontinent Leste because standing interest areput paragraphs progressive deforestation affecting flooding And We really evidence But those pages beginning It seemed logical evidence getting problems really pervasive people realized But couldn anything written about seemed start Worldwatch Right Worldwatch being founded Maurice Strong UNEP United Nations Environment Program previously UN Conference Environment Stockholm happened Lester arranged breakfast would about environmental degradation third world means production He interested At Stockholm there discussion being really important problem developing countries But really investigated things further So grant support research writing dissemination By beginning November trying think about issue research It outline chapters should think where information Kathleen Newland research assistant helped The actively searched around I calling visiting people AID Department Interior ranging around I would inclined I Reston spend library Geological Survey couple reports about salinity Pakistan Erik Eckholm Senior Researcher Worldwatch Institute Kathleen spent weeks Library Congress porin9 years journals every conceivable subject matter quickly became clear forestry journals agricultural journals really cover these issues We would geography journal article would paragraph effects soils changing population patterns engineering journal would something about silting somewhere If footnotes there quite eclectic group sources I heard there German journals forestry couple people spoke German articles summarize anything seemed useful We number Spanish things We generally research effort March I month Pakistan India Nepal Bangladesh Nigeria It hurried But crucial I world I never would confident writing about these things strong terms without seeing little myself without having people field these things important On paper build strong anything Washington Did initial there significant amount awareness knowledge field about effects environmental deterioration agriculture tapped Eckholm Usually specific environmental problem given there people conce about there people broader perspective environmental deterioration means Foresters northern Pakistan worried about their forest Then I engineering people Lahore working salinity water logging problems In India there certainly foresters concerned about firewood But these people think worldwide terms nationwide terms usually And there little communication between forester concerned about firewood agricultural person concerned about erosion someone public works program building little interaction between I found though I continue given problem someone someone introduce world there thousands people there ground about They communicate often people right around The firewood aspect chapter Losing Ground Worldwatch Paper entitled Firewood Other Energy Crisis caught attention Washington strongly Yet seems perceived problem people should concerned Eckholm Perception problem thousand times though Among people development business I think certainly perceived crucial group People might disagree about important relative priorities there still papers written about energy third world mention percent people But timeo owell I accident It original topics Losing Ground I organizing along conventional categories forests soils irrigated culture In first months doing research I pieces there mentioning fuelwood probl occurred topic together different themes I dealing environmental degradation deforestation energy crisis Everyone talking about called Energy Crisis because Arab embargo I Makhijani Poole bookI which discusses firewood extent first published things Openshaw article2 appeared New Scientist saying firewood His article confidence really problem seemed But apart article anywhere anyone saying massive problem It local easily solvable thing So I traveling Asia I conversations point asking about fuelwood situation always people If Pakistan India Nepal about I having getting forester about other normal forestry issues I would about firewood Arjun Makhijani Alan Poole Energy A riculture Third World Cambridge Mass Ballinger Keith Openshaw Wood Fuels Developing World New Scientist Vol No January suddenly would going would about people killing trees cities something In Nepal talking driver while looking tourist sites I someone carrying asked about It talked about expensive getting prices rising Well single handedly discover The Other Energy Crisis people Jim Howe Senior Fellow Overseas Development Council credit Eckholm I think using discovered quotati marks But halfway seriously since publicize other single person I curious versions firewood paper appeared Eckholm Well originally I I excited topic In Nigeria I stopped International Institute Tropical Agriculture It holiday I stuck Institute So I wrote there thought Of title I rewrote showed around staff people excited Worldwatch point produced anything written direction things going I tried article major American magazines anywhere first It Was little development oriented If I different person might flown someplace Sunday N Y Times Magazine Harpers articles those third world oriented technical But I unknown weird topic Then clear Worldwatch going structure institutional publications We wanted series research papers But article seemed compared It first person anecdotal papers since But Lester decided ahead first since subject seemed better first paper because people would think Lester Brown institute I getting little discouraged after being turned three magazines article finally I shorter version pages The Washington Post Outlook section interested So actually first place printed I feedback immediately years I heard about effects article People World Bank policy planning staff immediately started taking energy helped touch reassessment their forestry program least people article something I trying other articles Natural History magazine I showed manuscript about appear Post print thing So appeared Natural History there course broader circulation Post Then Worldwatch Paper There front story New York Times about firewood shortage third world Boyce Rensberger He elaborate story about firewood That Times article reprinted Herald Tribune papers It brought attention Worldwatch Paper Institute The I funny calls investment firms Wall Street saying should invest forestry They going export India something A Simpligrate simple metal frame device Put daily newspaper light minutes water eight I prepared subscription New York Times million Indians could Simpligrates Then I letter makers Duraflame artificial saying could solve firewood crisis artificial I length article which number newspapers around world The Worldwatch Paper chapter Losing Ground A magazines expressed interest Some version article ranging pages pages appeared magazines larger newspapers around world Since I different article firewood International Wildlife using material And recent Worldwatch Paper Planting Future I tried provide updated issue A written about subject since The Losing Ground course broadly focussed problems environmental stress undermining agricultural systems What feedback particularly third world Eckholm I nothing positive feedback whole It translated twelve different languages which indication interest I subsequently discovered foreign language editions books already Excerpts printed periodicals around world Or personal visits There letters people coming office saying somethi their minds important problem their country Just today I letter environmental section AID Latin American Bureau asking copies could distribute their offices Latin America raising consciousness about issues It intangible thing saying impact paper For firewood paper there tangible feedbacks people World Bank saying helpful Apparently helped change policy there People AID somewhat And after Worldwatch Paper NationalAcademy Sciences decided about firewood species which about appear SoedJatmoko leading Indonesian office firewood paper pulled draft forestry section national development rewrote because people realized ignored aspects Things Whereas there fewer tangible manifestations impact individuals saying about important issues ignoring people already environmentally oriented saying using educate others In International Wildlife article noted Karl Marx first attracted social political issues because persecution peasants Germany 1840s stealing firewood estates wealthy landowners That interesting surprise Aside popularity firewood topic there things surprised began examining deforestation environmental degradation issues Eckholm Yes Surprises emerged especially having forests In history books school about these issues scarcity prevailing theme human histo Ships timbers masts forest supplies affected ability movement People fight cedars Lebanon because needed ships The whole transition spurred shortage firewood Europe Whenever I seems issue I ancient history generally included history books So I enjoy reading history quite looking little clues things I reading biography Karl Marx behold Karl Marx first become conscious material basis social conflict seeing people persecuted stealing firewood A number people IDRC Canada International Development Research Centre East West Center dealt firewood other forestry issues third world quickly subject planning tenure You progression perhaps starting point Since forthcoming final Worldwatch Paper specifically tenure development would little about tenure application forestry problems Eckholm Land tenure problems aways presented social issue equal sharing fruits society From political point always important justification reform But doing research about forest problems agricultural soils problems I found unequal tenure often contributing factor The biggest threat sound management third world often tendency farming other human activities spread extensively whole landscape The avoid having people constantly moving areas hillsides tropical forests intensify agriculture better farmlands protect forest intensify employment better farmlands cities As start looking thenthe tenure system obviously relevence For countries severe deforestation problems farmlands latifundia estates cattle ranches cotton farms relatively little labor They owned wealthy families while majority small peasants living hillsides But extent equitable distribution people stake farmland valleys giving something productive living makes easier prevent illegal squatting forest preserves reduces pressure government programs clear forests farmland But there different forestry related tenure problems concerning manage reforestation program around village upcoming paper doesn In I tried question briefly How there private tenure organize things community benefit growing How protect seedlings South Korea interesting woodlots privately owned But government powerful enough landowners either reforest yourselves village associations share percent proceeds Ten percent doesn really sound landowner If sharecropping arrangement often percent But They basically coopted private lands public purpose working A State Department Strategy Conference Tropical Deforestation surprisingly little written about economic costs associated proper forest management An opportunit exists creative economic analysis forest sector justify greater investments planting forest protection Even creative analysis needed indirect economic costs incurred ecological functions forests impaired Quantification costs reservoir river siltation hydrological disruption degradation would forests great boost project analysis process point would useful someone compile information about forestry success stories Third World lessons about institutional mechanisms could gleaned In Planting Future seems began amount Eckholm I already starting paper I those statements But I myself later I chose those subjects paper because I thought important But I really couldn needed particularly terms total economic importance If country Pakistan extreme scarcity forest products where costs twice Washington D C evaluate constraint development country It seems major Look example problemso housing additional costs using concrete forth To extent additional those things especially foreign exchange depress construction houses buildings Or construction railroad I China early years after Revolution development their railroad system constrained steel rails railroad A country doesn doesn massive foreign exchange reserves development constrained That never really inves tigated So paper I I which important issue without really being Whom could point right doing assessing forestry programs Eckholm I think World Bank under leadership John Spears Forestry Advisor there particular doing pretty assessing forestry problems various countries trying justify projects economically He papers himself Sidney Draper World Bank paper about Pakistan forestry sector excellent The FAO conventional statistics FAO people doing research quite useful It thing world They haven really cutting things I think their programs forestry local community development interesting That should produce kinds studies village fores projects I think would useful What about terms creative economic analysis It seems country there relatively examination implications world which there capita standing timber today Eckholm I happening anywhere I about Where would assess situation regarding importance environmental issues other priorities development I think phrase world maintain habitable environment What battle scene Eckholm I think acceptance interrelationships between environ development spread major Just three years environmental groups Washington narrow those issues They brought lawsuit against AID force AID prepare environmental impact statements which their whole avoid negative impacts technologies Their major interests really pesticides their major these projects stopped They AID change pesticides policies But couple years individuals begun realize there preserving birds trees without reasonable development people They there important issues negative effects development negative effects development Deforestation erosion uncontrolled poverty rather uncontrolled technology cases A coalition environmental groups become interested AID They lobbied Congress section added LID legislation saying AID goals should protecting natural environment resources which depend being This ammendments being directing AID involved forestry From development progress certainly universal there growing number individuals interested Deforestation being talked about presidents countries leading economists major threat There consciousness about As state things world I I I pessimistic optimistic To ideas change programs started within three years makes little optimistic On other population projections general organizational capacities governments different political constraints solving these problems becomes pessimistic I haven really resolved whether forces I certainly catac lysmic future Most these problems cause deterioration makes solution other problems harder There people cataclysm already Sahel Dr Nepal perhaps But there Eckholm WEK Eckholm Eckholm efforts offset these trends It question environmental deterioration making decent development difficult would otherwise In cases eliminate development prospects perhaps But cases there countervailing forces Within weeks leaving world researcher publicist State Department What kinds things working What hopes expectations I Policy Planning Staff state Department responsibility about different issues including global environment energy nuclear energy issues I exactly I spend I write positi papers identify policies should coming ahead should change approach Policy Planning functions personal staff Secretary State In addition interacting operational bureaus responsibility issues I working Secretary might going meeting someone Algeria needs grounder about recent trends Algerla lands eight tomorrow morning I So I solely working issues written about Worldwatch means It gentle introduction bureaucracy functions think State Department between I doing I doing I bureaucrat At least I dramatically expectations about I accomplish I there different bureaus people working given issue different interests worded doesn change Well worded Worldwatch Paper amount But sometimes easier maybe writing effect outside inside Before leave world unofficial speculation haven touched writings about health I presented publicly before seems appropriate before complete section career these things together I would welcome would willing summarize synthesis global forestry health issues You Toilet Paper Crisis Well I haven quantified variables I But certainly world health problems number threat being leading cause death sanitation among worlds poore water supply sewage facilities We always about water supply which single biggest problem The reason problem water contaminated human excrement That biggest spreader diseases environments Now seems solution would combined everyone world using toilet paper disposal system If about infant mortality always because someone hands contaminated handle cooking forth So toilet paper course proper subsequent disposal along nutrition would reduce massive Then course rates childhood mortality third world imedlately problem where paper going You already widespread shortages paper third world trees disappearing rather forest resources support particular solution health problem In provides grand synthesis forestry health issues Bill Although Erik claim diplomatic immunity publications including L0sig Ground Envlronmental Stress World Food P 0spects Firewood Other Energy Crisis Planting Future Forestry Human_Needs forthcoming paper reform sustainable development remain available Worldwatch Institute Massachusetts Avenue NW Washington D C 20036 With appreciation Erik Sic